Posts by Rev B

18

Christendom basically has it right!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i saw yadirf's post (formerly friday on h20) barking about how christendom still has it all wrong regarding the trinity, immortal soul, all going to heaven, hellfire, jesus dying on a stake and not a cross, etc.. it is obvious that such people as yadirf have never visited a regular mainline church or he would not make such absurd claims, the very same idiotic claims touted by the watch tower lying and deceit society.. most christians and christian theologians do profess the trinity, in varied forms, but it is not a matter of salvation to accept it.

likewise for the soul, hell, the cross, etc.. genuine everyday christians are far more concerned about living a christian life, doing good, and following jesus.

they do witness, though informally as the spirit moves them ... which is a far more caring, considerate, and successful method then the watch tower door-to-door system.

Rev B

Well you are wrong all :-). The JWs are too, but rarely in their doctrines.

1. Many churches consider it EXTREMELY essential for salvation (deliverance from burning hell in their opinion) that you believe Jesus is God Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh. That bounds in their false understanding of what Jesus was/is about. He was a SINFREE MAN on earth.

2. Secondly people are kept in the dark that the bible points to the resurrection as the hope for all that ever lived. Underneath this 'believing is the only essential' lies a huge amout of selfishness, it's just another form of selfmindedonlyhealing. The 'all good people go to heaven teaching' is definetly more charming but like universalism, not based on the bible.

3. Doctrines like trinity, immortal soul and burning hell aren't biblical true.

God Bless

5

Jw's only ones to survive???

by dungbeetle in

in response to hawkaw's hilarious post:.

* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16104&site=3.

here are some recent quotes from jw literature... wt 3/1/99.

Rev B

uuupps rev 19 not 14, only the beast and the false prophet go to 2nd death there. A mindpuzzle... ;-)

5

Jw's only ones to survive???

by dungbeetle in

in response to hawkaw's hilarious post:.

* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16104&site=3.

here are some recent quotes from jw literature... wt 3/1/99.

Rev B

The JW problem is that just as the bible teaches of no immortal soul and litteral eternal torment, it doesn't teach that people in the harmageddon will go to 2nd death, it teaches a lot will be slain (zech 13/rev 14 - 2/3 of earth according to zech 13) but it also teaches that the soul pays the bill of its sin by death in this life (ezk 18/romans 6) and it teaches of a resurrection of just and unjust (john 5). Harmageddon is show of God's sovereignity, the final lesson to be learned, not about judging people.

I personally believe Rutherford made this teaching along with other nonlogics such as denying Adam a resurrection, of two reasons:
1. JWs had been too generous about seats in the reign, little crowd and when they became big they had a problem, also in light of their hard legalistic rules. The thing is that Jesus don't require that much of nonsaints, just good morals and believing. For saints requirements however, study the apostles hard and find out for yourself.
2. his struggle with the hellfiering beast of the US churches required of him to become harsher.

I think you could also blaim the individual 'sheepminded' JW member for not revolting against this teaching. Must be hard for the insightfull among them to preach this doctrine. I have talked to several of them, they normally keep quite.

But afterall, it gets customers to the shop just like the repulsive hellteaching of the church does. JW just piss of more people that they do, because JW requires much more of people to survive harmageddon that the churches to escape eternity in hell.

God Bless

7

Article on Soul by former Gilead graduate

by CatholicGuy in

a rather interesting article on the issue of "soul" and "eternal punishment" by a former bethelite/gilead graduate.

you will need adobe acrobat reader to read the file.. http://home.att.net/~kguin/mt1028_soul.pdf.

not my webpage but a favorite:.

Rev B

I certainly doubt that this artikel has been written by a former Gilead student too! The strong hellbelief just prove how little traditional christians read the bible and how little they know the OT. It keep on puzzle me that a few verses in the bible have growed into such a strong belief, got to be satan behind it. I'm afraid we will never get the traditionals to face their errors on these issues, when a man dies he's freed from sin, he paid his inherited curse by this life. Incredibel how people believe the torment goes on in the afterlife :-).

Great post jed459 *S*

6

JW/'Heretic' interpretation of 'Lazarus in Hell'

by Rev B in

apart from my biblical belief of a resurrection of all ever borned without conditions, the philosophical look on the fall of man, differences in the endtimes and anti legalistic views, i'm jw to people although i'm really a biblestudent.

a guy on another board filled with 'heresy' asked me of a jw interpretation of the lazarus story, maybe some will like this; .

nothing in old testament back up either immortal soul or torment in hell.

Rev B

You ask a lot! Well once Jehovah had given that right to the heathens, no force on earth of heaven could give that right back to the Jews

45

Does anyone get scared?

by aud8 in

does anyone who has left the organisation ever get scared at current world events and what they seem to be leading to?

more and more the governments are getting fed up with religion, there is now more than even a call "for" peace rather than "of" peace and security.

bin laden and his extremist religious views would give rise to the thought that governments will in the future be intent on eradicating religion altogether due to the trouble it causes.

Rev B

If we follow up on the Harmageddon/Armageddon/Terible day of God/Day Of Wrath/Dies Irae issue for biblebelievers, not for those that don't believe in the bible or only believe in some of it, this day's about God sovereignity on earth, not about the fate of individual men. Those that happen to be alive in this day will have two different stories to tell the rest in the resurrection; those that believe and are kept alive will be the ones that will see the kingdom first and be there to instruct people on earth, those unbelievers that die will be raised to tell the other resurrected of God's terible might and that he's very real. Zechiriah 13-14 (13:8 1/3 of people spared), Rev 7 (the big crowd), Rev 19 (the battle) and the small book James (telling about what leads up to it) all give a lot of info on this.

God Bless

6

JW/'Heretic' interpretation of 'Lazarus in Hell'

by Rev B in

apart from my biblical belief of a resurrection of all ever borned without conditions, the philosophical look on the fall of man, differences in the endtimes and anti legalistic views, i'm jw to people although i'm really a biblestudent.

a guy on another board filled with 'heresy' asked me of a jw interpretation of the lazarus story, maybe some will like this; .

nothing in old testament back up either immortal soul or torment in hell.

Rev B

That Jews of the Old Covenant can't have seats in Heaven. It's only by following the instructions of Jesus and the apostles.

45

Does anyone get scared?

by aud8 in

does anyone who has left the organisation ever get scared at current world events and what they seem to be leading to?

more and more the governments are getting fed up with religion, there is now more than even a call "for" peace rather than "of" peace and security.

bin laden and his extremist religious views would give rise to the thought that governments will in the future be intent on eradicating religion altogether due to the trouble it causes.

Rev B

Whatever the WT says, the Bible is what accounts. A resurrection of all has been promised in their due time (John 5:25-29, Acts 24.15; Rev 20:13). WT likes to use Rev chapter 19 and claim it's not important that the people slain here aren't throwed into the lake of fire. However, if they are not thrown into the lake of fire, they are not put into 2nd death. End of story. It was just J.F. Rutherford's invention when he turned bad some time after 1925.

45

Does anyone get scared?

by aud8 in

does anyone who has left the organisation ever get scared at current world events and what they seem to be leading to?

more and more the governments are getting fed up with religion, there is now more than even a call "for" peace rather than "of" peace and security.

bin laden and his extremist religious views would give rise to the thought that governments will in the future be intent on eradicating religion altogether due to the trouble it causes.

Rev B

I'm sad to see that JW's give a wrong imperfect impression of Jehovah.
Here are some great passages from the PASTOR RUSSELL’s ‘The Photodrama’. They are written in a different more simple language than his Studies in The Scriptures, to communicate a simple message, I have transalated some of it into English from my foreign tongue (not 100% worked through so forgive spellerrors or wrong ways of expression) and added additional verses;

A MESSAGE OF GREAT JOY:

It's only by seeing the child of Bethlehem in relation to Logos, by whom all is that we can see Jesus in the right light. His life didn’t origin from Adam through Josef, his birthrights wasn’t ruined like Adam’s children. His life was brought into the world. Logos, rich and glorious in his spiritual being, became poor for our sake, became the man Jesus Christ, so that we through his poverty should be rich, so that that all men should be rich, the deathsentence (from our ancestor Adam) and all it resulted in form of sorrow, pain and alienation towards God. ‘A body you prepared for me, for the suffering of death’. The death of an innocent was necessary as a ransom for Adam and his kind.

1 Timothy|2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God
and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy|2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.

Isaiah|53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows,
and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isaiah|53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our
sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah|53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was
bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon
him; and with his stripes we are healed.

No wonder that the angels rejoiced in announcing the gospel of Logos turned into flesh to the shepherds, the child of Bethlehem;

Luke|2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I
bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luke|2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a
Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luke|2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the
babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luke|2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the
heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luke|2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good
will toward men.

Only few have understood how far reaching this gospel is and only few have had opportunity to have share in this great joy. But our Saviour has promised that he will be the true light to all ever borned.

The Saviour is a lifesaver. The right to life has been wasted, all are dying. The Lifesaver came to the world to give life to all men.

Hebrews|7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
unchangeable priesthood.
Hebrews|7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the
uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make
intercession for them.
Hebrews|7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy,
harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the
heavens;
Hebrews|7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer
up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for
this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Let us give thanks to God providing the Lifesaver!

The prophecy of the Lifesaver has not yet been fully fulfilled. The birth of the child was the first step, the death on the cross the next, then Logos glorious resurrection and exaltation into divine nature another, the call to priesthood or sainthood the bride of Christ that soon will soon be to end and finally the coming Messianic kingdom. It will be the final fulfilment of this glorious prophecy.

(REV B’S ADDITION):
Before his death on the cross he prayed to his father, to the saints, not the rest of the world whom his death insured deliverance from the 1st death and the resurrection thereby;

John|17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to
heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy
Son also may glorify thee:
John|17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he
should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John|17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the
only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John|17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the
work which thou gavest me to do.
John|17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Mankind is assured from deliverance of first death;

John|5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and
now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they
that hear shall live.
John|5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given
to the Son to have life in himself;
John|5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
because he is the Son of man.
John|5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which
all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John|5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of judgment.

John|11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the
life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John|11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never
die. Believest thou this?

Romans 11:32For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

John|1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John|2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John|2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans|5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1st Timothy: 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Titus: 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works

(PASTOR RUSSELL FURTHER):

THE DESTRUCTION OF SODOMA:

The Sodomites lived in a rich valley and by that, they avoided some of the curses God gave man after Adam’s fall:

Ezekiel|16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom,
pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in
her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and
needy.
Ezekiel|16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination
before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

(REV B’S ADDITION):
So is God’s high morals;

Exodus|22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
Exodus|22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all
unto me, I will surely hear their cry;
Exodus|22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with
the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children
fatherless.

(PASTOR RUSSELL FURTHER):
God set the destruction of the Sodomites as an example of the faith of sinners, death not eternal torture, as Jesus says;

Luke|17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

The Bible teaches that God’s mercy in Christ also reaches out to the Sodomites although they were very sinful. The prophet Ezekiel and Jesus himself, teaches that when he returns to the earth, he will provide a judgment for the whole world, who haven’t in this life received a full opportunity, even the Sodomites to be able to rejoice in God’s mercy.

Luke|10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
Luke|10:13 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

The prophecy in Ezekiel 16:49-61 is very clear. It speak of a restoration and blessing coming time for God’s Israel who will also benefit the dead Sodomites in the Messianic kingdom.

Ezekiel|16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall
return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall
return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

Ezekiel|16:62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou
shalt know that I am the LORD:

(REV B’S ADDITION):
Other places in the OT scriptures we see the same turning of faiths from Sheol (not lake of fire) to judgment:

Jeremiah|49:37 For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their
enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil
upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the
sword after them, till I have consumed them:
Jeremiah|49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy
from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah|49:39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that
I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

(PASTOR RUSSELL FURTHER):

THE FATE OF THE AMALECHITES:

It seems as King Saul (first king of the Israliets) never obeyed the instructions of the Lord fully. He always followed his own wishes and even when direct orders from the Lord was given through the prophet Samuel he didn’t fully obey and had to be rebuked. When Saul was ordered to kill all the Amalechites, a people very hostile to the Israliets, he didn’t obey fully. He spared some of them, for instance their king. Many have thought it was strange that God gave such orders. The most sufficient explanation for this is that the whole world in under the deathsentence, all will die of one reason or another. The evilness of the Amalechites had reached is highest and now their sentence was elimination.
If these people, as we once thought, went to eternal torture, this would have been utterly horible. But the case if very different when we discover that God, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, has provided a resurrection of both Amalechites and Sodomites, they will return to their former state. So will all people in the Messianic Kingdom.

We see other examples of eliminatio:
2 Kings|19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the
LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred
fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning,
behold, they were all dead corpses.
2 Kings|19:36 So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh.

Very wrong understandings of the character of God and the biblical teachings evoked in the dark ages where the bible wasn’t known by most men. A bible at that time was something extremely costly and many couldn’t read either. They didn’t understand that to worship a god that had prepared eternal torment to his creation would just be a another form of Moloch worship, which were condemned by God.

(REV B’S ADDITION):
Deuteronomy|12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for
every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto
their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in
the fire to their gods.

2 Kings|17:16 And they left all the commandments of the LORD their
God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove,
and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
2 Kings|17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to
pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold
themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to
anger.
2 Kings|17:18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and
removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of
Judah only.

Psalms|106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters
unto devils,
Psalms|106:38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their
sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of
Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
Psalms|106:39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went
a whoring with their own inventions.
Psalms|106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against
his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Jeremiah|7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which
is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
into my heart.

(PASTOR RUSSELL FURTHER):
The light from the coming morning shows us that God’s character is love and rightiousness. To us, the Bible becomes understandable and its teachings harmonic.

(REV B’S ADDITIONS)
1 John|4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Proverbs|4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light,
that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Psalms|119:153 Consider mine affliction, and deliver me: for I do
not forget thy law.
Psalms|119:154 Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according
to thy word.
Psalms|119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek
not thy statutes.
Psalms|119:156 Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me
according to thy judgments.
Psalms|119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do
I not decline from thy testimonies.
Psalms|119:158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because
they kept not thy word.
Psalms|119:159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O
LORD, according to thy lovingkindness.
Psalms|119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every
one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

MAY JEHOVAH KEEP AND PROTECT YOU

6

JW/'Heretic' interpretation of 'Lazarus in Hell'

by Rev B in

apart from my biblical belief of a resurrection of all ever borned without conditions, the philosophical look on the fall of man, differences in the endtimes and anti legalistic views, i'm jw to people although i'm really a biblestudent.

a guy on another board filled with 'heresy' asked me of a jw interpretation of the lazarus story, maybe some will like this; .

nothing in old testament back up either immortal soul or torment in hell.

Rev B

Apart from my biblical belief of a resurrection of all ever borned without conditions, the philosophical look on the fall of man, differences in the endtimes and anti legalistic views, I'm JW to people although I'm really a biblestudent. A guy on another board filled with 'heresy' asked me of a JW interpretation of the Lazarus story, maybe some will like this;

Nothing in Old Testament back up either immortal soul or torment in hell. Jehovah, even in his angered prophecies about Edom never mentions it, on the contrary he talks of punishment of the body and death in sheol as its end, 1st Samuel 2:6 and Amos 9:2 (I truly recommend you to look up those verses and read the chapter, they will perhaps give you even further insight). The reason is simple, man has not immortality, Jehovah prevented him from eating at the tree of life and the word translated into soul is the hebrew 'nephesh' meaning creation. A cat is a soul, a man is a soul, none but Jehovah has/own soul(s). The punishment for sin is death of the soul as Ezekiel 18:20 puts it. (A a reward the just receive immortality Romans 2:9/ 1 Cor 15).
Now we move to the New Testament. Nothing changed here about Jehovah, just as he isn't a trinity he hasn't changed his playroles. Lack of OT rooting is the death of the doctrines of traditional church. We find that Matt, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations tell of something that could be understood as burning hell. Revelations explain themselves, it's a symbol in a book of symbols, for 2nd death, the death Jesus didn't pay for, the sin om mans own head (Jeremiah 31:18-20). So the Gospels tell another story than the whole Bible? Hardly. Jesus talked in parables that sounded like nonsense to most, and on the hellsubject he addresses the eternal fire of the Valley of Hinnom. Other places such as Mark 9:46-49 he addressed Ezekiel 66:24, talking of the utter destruction of the bodies of the enemies of Jehovah.
Sure the parable of Lazarus puzzles people. The hellpreaching churches love it, the catholics love it because here the bible tell a story that appear to be in accordiance with their unbiblical doctrines. When we analyse the parable closer, we learn that it's (as we already should know) a tale of symbols. We see a rich man and a poor man. It's not out of faith in Jesus these people get their sentence, no it's out of a sense of justice. Funny, as the traditional church doctrines have no amount of justice. We learn by reading it carefully, all the heads to the great faithful Israliets of the past, that this is a symbol of the covenants, the old to the Jews that they behaved themselves unworthy of (failing Jehovah again and again) just as the rich man behaves nasty and therefor the priviledge of covenants is given to the poor, all people that among are them, not only a resurrection of the billions can take place, but that the seats in the kingdom of God, the saints have been given to those of great faith and deeds among all people.

May Jehovah keep and protect you